By STEVE MASCORD
rugbyleaguehub.com Long Reads: As far as NRL Europe is concerned, what would you like to get out of this trip in terms of the NRL’s involvement in the British game?
Peter V’landys: “Look, what we’re here for is out of an act of loyalty to Mike Danson and Simon Moran. They backed us in Vegas, we developed a relationship and they asked us to look at Super League, and how we could partner, help. And for us, it’s philosophical, because we want to have a strong game in England, you know? If you’re going to have an international game, you need England to be strong. That goes without saying. So if the game collapses over here for whatever reason, it’s not good for rugby league worldwide, globally. And what I’ve learned being in the chair, the job is you need to make rugby league global. I mean, doing everything we can to make it global. So you need England to be strong. So that’s our interest, is because of our loyalty to Mike Danson. We’ve got no preset views. We’re here to listen and to see how we can help. But I’ve got to say, looking at the situation here, if they don’t do something, it’s dire. You know, it’s not the … and it can be fixed. It’s not as though it can’t be fixed, but you’re gonna need to be really disciplined and act in the best interests of the game as a whole, if you’re gonna get there. Because if there’s too many people going to the different directions and not wanting to band together, they’re basically … I can’t see how they can survive. That’s my personal view. And they just need a corporate governance structure that will move the game forward. And that’s at the moment, they don’t have that corporate governance structure.”
RLH: Blake Solly and and Shane Richardson have been involved – and there was Richo’s 10 team plan – and there’s also been stories about a 33 percent stake, but full control. Have all those things fallen into the background now, or are they still on the table?
PVL: “Look, we asked, uh, Shane and Blake to assist us and to advise us. because they both worked here and both knew what how the whole system worked. But there’s never been a plan put forward about 10 teams or anything like that. That’s speculation. We certainly have not considered that, and it will be premature for us to say that without discussing it with the Super League clubs. You know, who’s to say the 16 isn’t the best? Who’s to say that 12 or 14 or 20 isn’t better? We don’t know. And it all depends on the revenues that the game is going to generate, how many teams are you going to have? First and foremost, you’ve got to make the competition viable. And to make it viable, you know, it might be 12 teams, it might be 14 teams. We’ve never got to that level of detail to know what the optimum number of teams are. I think the 10 is Richo’s view … you know, and he’s probably got a good view. But that’s not to say that’s ours’ because we’ve never discussed it. So we’ve never gone to that level of detail.”
RLH: When you say the prognosis is dire, is that a reflection of the declining TV revenues? Is that the main reason?
PVL: “Well, the main reason is they’ve got to get their revenues up and they’ve got to be able to sustain the number of clubs. And the way they’re doing it by only giving half the (central funding) to some of the clubs … to me, you know, and I’ve got to be brutal about this, is heading for a train crash. I can’t see how that those two teams can survive with half the money. And it means that whoever owns them is going to have to put their hands in their pocket. And how long are they going to do that for? You know, people can incur losses for a period of time, but they’re not going to clear them forever.”
RLH: Some people think, maybe including me, that the only way headway is going to be made is with all out rebellion like 30 years ago in Australia… is that approach practical? Is it that approach possible? Is it a scenario that might happen?
PVL: “Any approach is possible, but that’s the least one that we least want. We certainly don’t want to be part of that. Look, I think that what they’ve got to do is band together. They’ve got to put their self-interest aside. They’ve got to put what’s best for the game (first). Because if they just go with self-interest in the end, they’ll have nothing as well. So even if they’re backing themselves on self-interest, in the end, they’re going to get no outcome. The only way they’re going to get an outcome is to band together and swallow their pride, swallow some of the things that they want at the moment. and (get) someone – an independent management – to do the whole thing for them. And that’s the only way it’s gonna be successful. Because self interest, when people go in a different direction, and everyone’s going a different direction, ends up a train wreck and that’s what’s going to end up here, unless they have an independent board that’s going to manage the competition.”
RLH: There’s two questions out of that answer, Peter. One is: you referenced what they want at the moment. Obviously, any extra detail on that would be great. And secondly, how would such an independent body or board be appointed? Would it be Australians? Would it be British people?
PVL: “Well, that’s up for discussion, but the way it’s done in Australia is: the initial board is selected and then after that the board picks the board. It’s got to be always independent. Now, that’s not to say that the clubs in Australia can’t all come together and remove the board. But the board will always be independent. And from my perspective, working on an independent board, you make decisions that are the best for the game as a whole, always. Because the hardest thing for an administrator is all the different participant groups that are there. They push their own barrow and some of them push it in a side direction, up direction. So our hardest part is to get them all together and manage them together. Yep. For the common, common cause. So … and that’s what they’ve got to do here. And because we’re independent, we make decisions that normally would not be made because the self-interest would destroy that decision. Putting additional clubs in Australia, that would never have happened if it wasn’t an independent commission. Because to put the Dolphins in, we had everyone against us. Everyone – and now it’s been one of the most successful initiatives ever in putting it in, right? But if it was another structure, it wouldn’t have happened. You know … and that’s and that’s the beauty of an independent board, is they make decisions for the game as a whole. And that’s the most important thing as, as I say, the hardest job for Andrew and myself is trying to keep all the groups in the same direction … you know: the players, the, um, the coaches, the clubs, the referees, there’s a multitude of participants. And you’ve got to get those participants together. And then a way you do it together is by an independent board.”
RLH: Because there isn’t a single British club in Super League this year that was formed in the even the 2nd half of the last century. You know, there’s there’s no real expansion or if it is, it fails, because I guess it’s not properly funded. You would appear to have leverage over the RFL in terms of Vegas involvement, games against Australia and maybe even World Cup debt. If you chose to use leverage against them, you could…
PVL: “Yeah, but we’re not we’re not here to use any leverage. As I said, we’re here because of Simon and Mike. We’re not here to force ourselves on anyone. We’re here to listen and to see if we can help. And if we walk away and they stay where they are, we’ll walk away friends. If they want us to do something, we’ll look at it and we’ll act in the best interests of the game globally. But there’s … you know, yes, look, there’s … we could certainly have some great negations. But we’re not here to negotiate. We’re here to help. You know, that’s the difference. You know, we’re not here to make money. We’re not here to for commercial opportunity for us. We’re here because of Mike and Simon. That’s the reason we’re here.”
RLH: And are you concerned about the (First Test) result on Saturday or the indications on Saturday in terms of competitiveness? Even though they’re not very wealthy at the moment here but it’s the two biggest markets for the sport as exist now, and obviously there seems to be on one game’s evidence quite a bit of a gulf. So, any concerns on the field?
PVL: “No, not at all. Because if you look at the analogy, which is Queensland, New South Wales, sometimes one team is not competitive and then 12 months later, the whole thing turns around. When you put that jumper on for your country, you become a probably a 50 percent better player than you normally are. So I don’t have a concern that the English at some point (won’t) come back. Because they will. And over history, that’s been the case. And so, no, I’m not worried about that.”
Andrew Abdo: “Twenty twenty-six will be the most competitive World Cup we’ve ever had. If you look, you know, Tonga and Samoa have toured the UK the last two years and they lost the series. England beat them. Now, you know, Australia’s won one game, one of three games. Let’s see what happens in Test two. Meanwhile, back in Australia, we’ve got an unbelievably competitive series where basically … Tonga and New Zealand will have to play for the right to see who makes it into the final. And Australia only just won the final last year. Yeah, if the bounce of the ball was different, they might have lost it. Come World Cup 26, you’ve got Samoa, Tonga, New Zealand, and England, and Australia, five teams that potentially can win. And then you’ve got PNG, you’re getting stronger and stronger. So for me, the international game is going to continue to grow. As Peter said, we believe in the upside of England, France and this region over time. The player talent is here. The sport has existed here for a long period of time. So it will grow.
PVL: “But what they’ve got to do here, though, is they’ve got to bite a bullet and have a team in London. You know, if you’re not in the most populous city in the country, Well, what are you doing? Like, you know, it’s that’s where you’re going to be promoting the game. There’s two rugby union clubs that have gone into receivership. You’ve got pathway players there that can easily come over to rugby league. And you’ve got two … you’ve got some smart guys now running the Broncos. Um, it’s, it’s a no-brainer. They’ve got to be part of the plan, in my view.”
RLH: The suggestion that rugby league might steal a march on rugby union by going to America into 2030 before they do with the World Cup. I mean, the US is one of the bidders. Do you do you favour that idea of going to the World Cup in America in 2030?
PVL: “Look, we don’t want to breach board confidentiality with the IRL, but there’s other options other than America. And look, the NRL, with its global rounds, is going to be making its mark in America anyway.”
RLH: Shane Richardson has said: you shouldn’t deal with the RFL. You shouldn’t deal with Nigel Wood. So what is a relationship?
PVL: “It was fine. Look, Nigel was a great host in the first game. We got no problem against Nigel personally. I mean, he’s a nice guy. He always has been a nice guy. So, no, there’s no tension there whatsoever. Look, we may not agree on the way forward and that’s not no secret. But at the moment, he’s in charge. So, you know, you’ve got to deal with what you dealt with.”
RLH: “I mean, ultimately, it doesn’t really matter over personality. It’s like we want the Super League to do well. We want the international game to do well. So we, you know, we kind of sort of look for ways in which we can collaborate more.”
PVL: “Look, Shane Richardson is one of those guys that wants England to succeed. He wants to see it being successful. So he’s probably more passionate than most. And I love that. That’s the way you ought to be. So, you know … but we’ve got to take a little bit more conservative approach.”
RLH: And is your interest in the RFL and the wider game, right down to the amateurs, or is your interest in the elite level?
PVL: “You’ve got to go right down to the pathway, right? Because you need to develop players. You need to bring players up. You need to make the game popular at school. You’ve got to start from the grassroots. You got to put the seeds in. And the seeds will grow. There’s no good going for the for the tree when it’s already developed because it’s not going to grow all that much more. So you need to get the seedlings in and you need to grow it that way. And so it’s more than just the elite level.
AA: “If you look at the model in Australia, the professional game and the grassroots game is all together under the commission. And we’re thinking about the entire region, not just about our traditional markets. And the beauty of going top to bottom, east to west is that you can actually grow future fans for life from a young age. Touch, tackle, and tag in schools, in clubs is how you effectively acquiring the lifetime value of a fab. So there’s multiple benefits other than just pathway development and talent development.”
RLH: Does that mean under your preferred ideal blue sky scenario, the, RFL doesn’t exist anymore?
PVL: “There’s no blueprint. But there has to be drastic corporate governance change. That’s all I’ll say. I don’t know what the model is going to be forward but the current model does not work and it will not work.”
RLH: The other thing I wanted to ask you about was Global Round because I read Michael Chammas’ story but there hasn’t been a lot actually said about it or not in quotes anyway. So, um, how far advanced is this and how much work is it and how many people would you have to employ to do it? I mean, it sounds like an enormous undertaking.
PVL: “Look, the logistics are when you actually make the decision to go there, to get the grounds, to get the all those things. There’s a lot of logistics there. But to make the decision is not that difficult because you need a business plan and a business plan has got to be positive. What outcomes are you looking for from the global round? We’re looking at markets where there’s rugby union at the moment, so it’s not that big a difference for the audience to … because we’ve got a better game. And, you know, the time differences are a big factor, but also the tourist bureaus have seen how successful Vegas has been and prepared to put their hands in their pockets to get us there. So we’ll go there as long as there’s a firm business plan to back it up, you know, for us, in the sense that there’s going to be growth in that area of rugby league or the possibility of them subscribing to Watch NRL, so they become engaged fans. And you don’t have to have a big base to do that. And the other thing that’s a benefit to us is the life experience for a player. If you igo, if that player knows he’s going to be travelling the world at some point in time playing rugby league, it’s an advantage. That’s an advantage rugby union has – there’s no two ways about that. Because, you know, when you’re a young person, you like to travel. Now, all these guys here for the Kangaroo Tour have loved it. You know, we’ve loved the experience. The players going to Vegas. They love it. I mean, the Brisbane Broncos did it the best when they got themselves with the LA Rams, they got themselves with the basketball team. And they and they went and met LeBron (James) and all sorts of stuff. And for them, it’s a lifetime experience. They’re never going to get anywhere else. There’s all these little benefits. But for us, it’s about revenue growth, you know? If we can start some seedlings in some of these countries … who’s to know it doesn’t become a major crop? You’ve got to try. If you don’t try, you get nowhere. And, you know, everyone bagged us about Vegas. Look at it now. It’s probably been one of the most successful initiatives. But if nothing else, (it’s) the fact that it gives us momentum in Australia, because it’s the first round, the most watched round of any sport, because of Vegas. And those people that have come in for the first time watching the game for the Vegas round have stayed for the whole season. That’s why our audience has increased from That’s why our audience has increased from 137 million to two hundred and something million … is because, you know, promotions like Vegas. If you stand still and you just think things are gonna happen, you’re gonna fail. You need some luck, not everything is going to be successful, but you’ve got to try. You know, you’ve got to experiment and see if you can become a global game. It’s no good just being a back cottage industry in Australia, because Australia’s only got 24 million people. You know, you’ve got to make this … we’ve got the greatest sport in the world. We should promote it.”
RLH: Can you tell me how what role television plays in the talks with Super League and the RFL? Are you hoping to wrap everything together into one product?
PVL: Oh, look, that’s not … again, we’ve never gone to that level of detail. Because nobody’s given us a commission to do anything. We’re here to talk, you know? If they say, ‘et’s do this, do this’, well, then we’ll look at it. But at the moment, it’s all discussion.”
RLH: Tourism in Vegas is down. Some of the things that have been happening at the border with people coming in and out … does it, does it worry you?
PVL: “Look, Vegas is no concern to us because of the charismatic nature of Vegas. And look, we’ve got another 19,000 Australians going. You got eight or 9000 English people going. It’s going to be probably the most successful. You know, it’s just going to keep growing. But that’s not the mean that we stay in Vegas all the time. You know, you’ve got to look at all different cities. You’ve got to look at different ways of doing it. You know, Vegas, for some reason, turns around and it doesn’t for some reason become the city that’s got the charisma, we’lll, look at somewhere else. You know, there’s Miami, there’s New York, there’s a lot of places.”
RLH: Have you got a timeframe for deciding whether it’s a goer, the Global Round, and if you get a time frame for deciding whether the relationship with the British game is a goer or not?
PVL: “No, there’s no timeframe. Naturally, the global round we’re going to get on our bikes pretty quick and look, and Andrew has been looking at this for a couple of years with Wembley, et cetera. So there’s nothing new to us. We’ve always had ambition. Any sport or business that doesn’t have ambition, well, shouldn’t be there. So we’ve got ambition and we’re, you know, so we’re gonna drive that ambition. And we’ll investigate and we’ll do the business case, and if it works, we’ll go with it. If it doesn’t, we won’t.”
AA: “What we’re concerned about is that it’s strategic. You know, there’s lots of places that are offering us investment to take games there. But we want to make sure that it’s for the right reason and it’s long term, and it’s actually globalising, you know, the NRL and globalising the game long term.
RLH: And the last thing I wanted to ask about, Peter was the IRL. At times over the years that Australian authorities had a good relationship with the IRL, a bad relationship with the IRL, been fighting against the IRL. So how would you characterise the relationship now and what’s on the agenda with them?
PVL: “I think the IRL is certainly cohesive at the moment. We had a board meeting yesterday, it was extremely cohesive. The only concern we have is that there is debt there from the English Rugby League that’s got to be paid. We’re old fashioned. If you have a debt, you pay it. You’ve got a contract, you honour it. I’d give my right arm to make sure a contract’s honoured so we’re old fashioned that way. But, no, look, Troy Grant is doing a fantastic job as the chair and he’s the glue that keeps everyone together. So, no, look, I think it’s probably working better now than that back then.”
RLH: What’s the prospect of the bill being paid?
PVL: “Well, they move forward and do all these things, they will be able.”